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Trailblazers

Discussion in 'General' started by interceptor_maxx, Dec 1, 2014.

  1. interceptor_maxx

    interceptor_maxx Mad Max

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    I don't think it is a stretch to consider Madmunki and neotopia as trailblazers as former Homesters head into the wilderness of building new virtual worlds. Look at the ideas first proposed by Madmunki that the other devs are now using. They are establishing forums, proposing democratic principles in planning stages (voting), Q&A sessions in Home, kickstarter as a way to raise funds or at least gauge interest. Probably a couple others too....but those just off the top of my head. They are also learning from Neo mistakes made as well.

    Normally this would be something to be proud (and it is) but sadly trailblazers are usually found along those trails in skeleton form by those who follow. That is if the American wild, wild West is an example. The followers drink a shot of whiskey over their bones and praise the blazers' boldness and courage. Let's hope we don't end up getting honored in such a way....LOL :D

    Anyway....just babbling here and noticing things because.....well....it's what I do. ;)
     
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  2. Sam1knight

    Sam1knight Life in Balence

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    Oh I see just to let u know I read ur post, ohh capachino:)
     
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  3. NeoHelper

    NeoHelper Neotopia Guru

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    With all these virtual worlds coming out... I think it'll be a horrible competition. each one of the competitors are going to be trying to compete while the others are sadly going to go out of business... Til one stands.

    The thing im scared of is that with all these virtual worlds coming out all of a sudden it will cause such a collision that there could be ZERO virtual worlds. It would have been best if all the devs just teamed up and made one big VW! :(
     
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  4. RichieAppel

    RichieAppel New In Town

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    You act like these ideas are all completely original and unique only to Madmunki, when in fact they are not.

    Kickstarter, has been around since 2009. Lots of developers, primarily at the "indie" level have used Kickstarter successfully for their games.

    Democracy, or the perception of it anyway, are nothing new to video games. Developers have been leading their supporters to believe they actually have a say in things, with polls, and idea submissions. Some of which actually do come to fruition.

    Forums or message boards, have literally been around since the beginning of the internet. Today, 99% of companies have a forum for whatever they are selling. So it is no surprise these devs would also launch a forum.

    Q&A's within Home have been going on for years now as well. Usually it was for the devs promoting something they were making for Home.

    Madmunki, hasn't presented anything unique, or original. They just want to make Home again, and that is where their idea ends. Kovok, and Atom Republic on the other hand.... Their ideas are actually well thought out, unique, and different to what Home was/is.
     
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  5. interceptor_maxx

    interceptor_maxx Mad Max

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    Normally I would accuse you of being deliberately obtuse. But you really are just plain ****** if you don't get my post.
     
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  6. interceptor_maxx

    interceptor_maxx Mad Max

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    Now hurry up and run back to PSH forums and tell everyone how the a big meany neotopian bullied you and was mean to you for no reason whatsoever. Because no card plays as well as the victim card. But of course, neglect to tell them how completely **** you have been since Neotopia was announced.
     
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  7. NeoHelper

    NeoHelper Neotopia Guru

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    Hey Richie,

    I don't think you understand this post all to well. I understand what you mean about KS, Q&As, etc... Atom,Kovok, veemee... They all are different, but they are virtual worlds as well every game we play is considered a "Virtual World"... What MadMunki is trying to do is make a game where yes it is like PSHome, but with a twist and better staff than home ever had... they are giving us what WE want, not what they want. MadMunki start all of these ideas from us and their imaginations. We all gave the Ideas they make ideas as well.

    There is no reason why we should argue about whos game is better because at the end of it all. We would all be going to try the other competitors games... I hope this made things more clear, because overall max was just trying to point out on what he sees and thinks. :)
     
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  8. JasonReso

    JasonReso Resident citizen

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    NeoHelper is right. MadMunki is trying to give us what we as a community want. There may be many virtual worlds coming to PS4. But Neotopia is being made for us. For what we want. Thank you MadMunki. :cool:
     
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  9. Arwen

    Arwen Resident

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    I know what you mean Maxx, I've noticed it too.
     
  10. RichieAppel

    RichieAppel New In Town

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    Maxx, how polite of you to call me******. It's great to know when someone is opposed to or criticize Neotopia, they will be called names, and be treated poorly. Just like what I witnessed at one of your flag events, maybe you still want to deny I witnessed that? I would never call you, or anyone here stupid. Besides, isn't it against the rules you all voted on to call others names? Or does that not apply to the ones with their noses planted firmly in the bottom of Madmunki?

    I did fully understand your post. You're comparing Madmunki to trailblazers, like they are the first pioneers trying to reach a "new frontier." You consider the methods being used by all of the other devs as copying Madmunki, or following their lead, because they did it first. I simply pointed out that what you're considering as trailblazing, is in fact nothing new or trailblazing. Madmunki are not, and never will be trailblazers. They just have the advantage of being the first dev to very quickly slap together a project, and using things that so many others already have and will use.

    You are right about one thing, the ones that follow a trailblazer, build their worlds/towns/etc on the bones of those that came before. Since you consider Madmunki as a "trailblazer" the other devs that may/will find success, will build their worlds on the bones of Neotopia and Madmunki. It is quite obvious that Neotopia will probably never get made. Madmunki has shown no initiative to have it made, after their Kickstarter failed to reach it's goal. All they appear to care about doing, is pow wowing with you guys/gals here, and voting on where/how to pow wow each week.

    As far as your "democracy" goes, you will see how much your voting really matters, IF Neotopia is actually made. You've already had the first example that Madmunki will tamper with your "democracy" when it suits them to do so. They tampered with/rigged the popularity contest to select moderators, and the community manager. They can use whatever excuse for tampering with the voting, but it doesn't change the fact that they did and will continue to tamper with voting.

    Look at it this way, let's say Madmunki is having a vote for four new spaces. One space, even though it hasn't been voted on before, has 20% of the work completed, and Madmunki are overconfident that this one will be chosen. The other three have 0% of the work completed. Even if the one that is 20% completed is the least popular vote, which one do you think they will say earned the most votes? Obviously the one with 20% of the work completed, because they will simply tamper with/rig the voting. If Madmunki is willing to tamper with/rig a voting, then it becomes clear what a complete sham their "democracy" is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  11. Seminole

    Seminole Resigned

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    Hey folks,

    Please remain professional and respectful to one another at all times. Everyone is welcome here at Neotopia and we also welcome your ideas, opinions and suggestions. We want to show that Neotopia is a friendly, safe and fun place to be at. Lets continue to abide by the forum rules and remind ourselves that positive and polite posts create a friendly and welcoming environment for all.
     
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  12. Oo_sKy_bLuE_oO

    Oo_sKy_bLuE_oO sky

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    Richie, I would like to let you know that there was No tampering or rigging of votes in choosing moderators. One of the candidates chose to step out of the selection process. The final decision was made based on voting percentage points awarded to the remaining candidates. Time zones also played a key factor as to allow for sufficient continuity of coverage.
    I apologize on behalf of Neotopia for the inappropriate sentiments that were conveyed to you by a specific member. That issue has been addressed. Neotopia Forum will not tolerate inappropriate treatment of any member or guest.
    I hope this is an adequate response as I would like this issue put to rest with no further back and fourth on the subject.
    Thank you.
     
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  13. GreyNeo

    GreyNeo Neotopia Community Manager Staff Member Administrator

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    Hello everyone,

    Just to be clear, we welcome all view points and debate on our forums, as long as it remains civil. Quite often we can learn more from viewpoints that differ from ours, and we take every opinion and suggestion into consideration.

    I assure you no votes have been tempered with, every poll has had the results publicly viewable. As Sky stated, there were many factors that played into the moderation selection process. All of the information MadMunkid told you previously on the PS forums, is still valid and still the truth.
    ( A link to the previous post for reminder: http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-Home/Neotopia-apartment-the-hub-Nov-12/m-p/44737702#M1415692 )

    We are only human and we will make mistakes. When they happen, we learn from them and apply what we learn to what we do in the future.

    " Look at it this way, let's say Madmunki is having a vote for four new spaces. One space, even though it hasn't been voted on before, has 20% of the work completed, and Madmunki are overconfident that this one will be chosen. The other three have 0% of the work completed. Even if the one that is 20% completed is the least popular vote, which one do you think they will say earned the most votes? Obviously the one with 20% of the work completed, because they will simply tamper with/rig the voting. If Madmunki is willing to tamper with/rig a voting, then it becomes clear what a complete sham their "democracy" is."

    The above passage is your hypothetical scenario. This is not how we work. Polls will be posted prior to work being done, just as with the theme voting during the KickStarter. We would not be doing work prior to community feedback, because it would be a waste of resources and time.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. As @interceptor_maxx
    is to his. Maxx is a passionate and dedicated supporter of neotopia and we appreciate his support and point of view. Just as we appreciate your point of view, and respect your right to support who ever you choose. We understand you may not be a supporter of the project and that's fine, we hope that one day you might be pleasantly surprised and find at least some joy in neotopia.

    Thank you for your comments and I hope you have a wonderful day! =^)

    GreyNeo
    Community Manager
     
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  14. xDaMoOnMaNx

    xDaMoOnMaNx Mayor Moon

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    Great post Maxx if everyone would stop attempting to seperate and just come together as a unity we would see a revolutionary product. #MayorMoon
     
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  15. UncleSpun

    UncleSpun Developer Staff Member Administrator Developer

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    Hey there @interceptor_maxx - just thought I'd drop by to say thanks for that wonderful analogy, especially as one of our sheriffs out here in the wild saw fit to shoot down that piece of your brilliant mind that you kindly chose to share with @RichieAppel ;) I normally head over to the Sony forum's to deal with Richie's accusations just so Richie doesn't feel ganged-up on, but sadly I don't have the time to do that anymore and I don't think I'll ever understand why Richie holds us in such low regard, but y'know what; we can live with that :)

    Hope to see you round the campfire soon pardner, it gets mighty cold out here in the wild at night!

    Dave :)
     
  16. interceptor_maxx

    interceptor_maxx Mad Max

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    Thank you Uncle Spun....I'm glad you understand where I am coming from. My posts the mods deleted? I get it. I understand where they are coming from. If it were anyone else, I would not have said the things I did. But where they saw a narrow snapshot, I saw a chronic problem whose claim to fame was the signature line telling Madmunki to "go fund yourself" at PSHome forums. Of course there are the dozens of his posts as well that basically say the same thing.

    As for you Richie, you don't want to hear it, but I am going to tell you anyway what your problem is. You came out fast and heavy against neotopia after it was announced. Negative post after negative post. But a funny thing happened. Instead of everyone agreeing with you, many decided to join the project and have some fun. And YOU didn't like it. So you went the vandal route and tried to disrupt anything positive about neotopia...like this very thread. My thread. So congrats on having wrecked it.
     
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  17. Oo_sKy_bLuE_oO

    Oo_sKy_bLuE_oO sky

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    I would like to make a few things clear if I may weigh in on this please and thank you in advance.

    The post that was removed was not due to a narrow snapshot of a bigger picture. I am well aware of some of the things posted on other social media sites. That is not my chief concern. Neotopia is of paramount concern to me. I am a Neotopia forum moderator .

    Your post was removed due to the wording used to express your opinions. It violated rules I am bound to follow. Rules provided to me by this company. We mods in no way wanted to step on your freedom of speech and you are certainly entitled to your opinions.
    We have a moderation team that is fair and unbiased and we do our job in an honorable fashion.

    I certainly understand your frustrations Maxx and I welcome reading your posts.You most always have very good points and not only are you a well spoken individual but your content is well thought out.

    I too am human and can become frustrated especially when someone speaks poorly of Neotopia and doesn't present factual information in their opinions but I don't hold my tongue just because I am a mod.
    I just take time to think things through and make my points in a constructive well thought out manner so I reflect my good character and represent my company with dignity and honorable behavior.

    You are cut of that same cloth so please don't resort to anything less.

    This particular incident ( regarding removed content) did not reflect well of you or Mad Munki according to rule numbers 2 and 3.
    That was our sole motivation for the actions taken. We made the judgment call to remove the posts and not edit but going forward in posts containing violations will be edited with asterisk *** and will not be removed entirely unless they violate the guidelines given to us regarding deletion of content.

    I hope you can fully appreciate what I have said here. Maxx you clearly have Neotopian pride. Thank you.
     
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  18. Seminole

    Seminole Resigned

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    Maxx, We have rules in place for this forum and it was the rules we all agreed on including all staff.

    I am not taking anyone's side and I did not have a narrow snapshot. A rule is a rule regardless who you are. We all have rights. The individual you directed your post to did not violate any rules in this particular thread topic.

    He stated his opinion which included incorrect information and that was corrected by sKy bLue.
    This individual did not resort to name calling.

    I removed the posts because I did not want what was contained in your post to reflect badly on you or Neotopia. Rule numbers 2 and 3 were in violation.

    I gave you every opportunity to edit your post omitting the offending material. You refused to do so, so I had no choice but to act accordingly in line with company policies.

    Just because someone doesn't agree or like Neotopia doesn't give any of us here the right to be spoken to in that manner.

    I personally do not know the individual you had an issue with but I am friends with you Maxx. Regardless of our friendship I have to do my job as moderator of Neotopia first and foremost.

    I have literally lost some friends due to my position as I rather expected . I have a duty to this company and I believe in Neotopia and I will continue to do my moderator duties with zeal and the utmost integrity and character.

    I am always concerned how OUR Neotopia is viewed in the general populous in the forum and outside the forum. The positive view starts here at neotopia.co/community.

    I want to see clear, factual, polite and well thought out posts in accordance with the rules and guidelines.

    I have restored your two posts but have uncommented out the inappropriate content with asterisks.

    Thank you,
    - Seminole
     
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  19. NeoTech

    NeoTech Neotopia Tech. Staff Member Administrator Developer

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    Hello Richie,

    If someone's called madmunki 'trailblazers' then that's just a term they're using. You're right - the people behind neotopia are floored (pun intended) individuals like everyone else. Everyone stands on someone's shoulders: turtles all the way down.

    However, we didn't just 'quickly slap together a project', the team spent an age cutting back the cost of something that should have been (and did originally was) a multi-million dollar project to an amount that we might have a chance of raising. There was a lot of pressure before releasing the Kickstarter campaign to reduce what we were asking for so that it was more likely to succeed. We chose not to reduce the amount further as it would be unrealistic.

    Using existing technology to reduce costs is common sense. To use UE4 for what is essentially an MMO isn't obvious - it needed research to check it was viable. If this assumption had been incorrect the whole premise would have been flawed. To do this we needed to understand the underlying principles behind Unreal Engine, cloud computing, security, the modern internet - this isn't obvious. If this is obvious to you, then can you send me your contact details and I'll manage your illustrious career.

    Most of what you say seems to be an angry reaction to the word 'trailblazer'. Your points about democracy are perfectly valid the best defence I can offer so far would be madmunki's commitment to Spunland - that's a labour of love not profit. Both science and the humanities use past history as a prediction.

    I'm very happy to answer any of your concerns about neotopia, the history, the failings of the team, etc... if you think we're doing anything sneaky then I can probably find out why - we have been in a few positions where we've had to make judgement calls. It's not something we want to do, we're just stuck with it.
     
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  20. Oo_sKy_bLuE_oO

    Oo_sKy_bLuE_oO sky

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    :thumbsup:Thumbs up to you NeoTech!:thumbsup:
     
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